Beating the Valkyrie Scout Rush...

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Comments like this:

"Anonymous said...

Sorry could you elaborate further for the stupid among us?

Are we trying to block a skimmer's movement? If not are we relying on the guard player attacking the scouts with the valkyries? Because I don't see that happening either."

And this:

"I, too, await Stelek's counter to outflanking."

And this:

"You probably refer to them lining up against board edges a la your Kroot..."

Seriously make me EMO.

So let's talk about it.

Let's start with the outflanking defense with Kroot.

First of all, why would you line your board edge with any infiltrating unit to prevent Chimeras or Valks from coming on?

The Chimeras can tank shock on, and the Valks can fly over.

Totally pointless, and not something I'd ever do.

I would however put my Kroot 9" in from the board edge if you are outflanking your Valks (and not your Chimeras, because you probably can't). That's 9" in but 4" deep, with the next units just over 3" away from the Kroot.

I'd put the rest of my army in the middle of the board, and use my central position to defeat you.

I went over this a while ago, did you guys just forget?

You can think having slight control over your random entry time and point is a good thing, but I still think it's shitty because my experience tells me it is.

You run into any Chaos Chosen outflanking lately? Yeah, me either. The units so fucking great, nobody is running it!

Sure IG can make the forces show up reliably and are almost capable of putting them on the table side they want, but so what?

I can stop you from deploying your meltaguns within 6" range of my vehicles, and with armies like this one, I have no reason not to run my Crisis/Broadside Suits in the middle of the board because you can't hurt me with anything but 2 squadrons of vehicles (which will hurt, and then be blown to bits--unless your AV12 vehicles just live forever against Tau Rail Rifles, then stop cheating with your big dice ya douche).

See, I've stopped your entire army in one fell swoop.

You think you can deploy your shit near me if you start on the board?

Let's think about that, using the Tau as an example--the most extreme one, btw.

I layer my 34 infiltrators 2" apart and in maximum spread in front of my army. You think you can come anywhere near me when you move? You can't. If you are hiding off the line and counting on your 24" move to get in range, as you likely are (and should be) then my infiltrators might not be 18" away from visible enemies but might be 16" or 14". That pushes you back even more, since it reduces your 6" scout move by a like amount.

Note: I could give a flying fuck if you scout move around when I'm going first--because I am going to light the fuck out of your Valks if they are in the freaking open on turn 1.

See, when YOU are going first I will refuse flank you, as I should. I'll just figure out where your Chimeras are all lined up, and setup to one side. There's not one fucking thing you can do about that either--the Valks and their cargo (if any) are on their own against a proper counter deployment.

How do I make the refused flank defense work with one unit of infiltrators? Easy. I line up 10 guys across how much board?

10" bases + 2" between each base = Your math sucks if you think I can't cover my entire fucking army frontage with 1 unit, ya? 30". What, you can't figure out that a unit 6" in from one board edge stops your Valkyries from moving up the side and in a huge 'no you can't go here' zone all the way out to the other side?

Go ahead, call it a wasted KP. Did I just get you to commit your Valks to NOT alpha striking me?

So I can gun them down before they can get to me?

Let's do some more math, so everyone can see how things really work and not just in mathhammer land.

I'm deployed 18" in from my board edge (you can't stop me without infiltrators of your own, you know) but could deployed as much as 24" in (that's 12" from you, so you can't scout forward). Let's not even talk about table quarters, where I can be so far from you even turboboosting you probably you can't hit a damn thing.

We are going to do the infiltrators deploy 6" in front of my army, for a total deployment area of 18". I'll subnote what happens when you put the infiltrators 12" in (because somehow they are out of line of sight, very unlikely unless you play at fail stores with 3' x 1' hills in the middle of the fucking table).

18" deploy means you get a 6" scout move.

Since we are now 0.1" over 12" away from each other, that means to stop you getting to me with short range Meltagun shots; I only need to deploy on my normal deployment line and you can't hit me with short range shots if you move normally.

Remember you have to stay an inch away from me, so the Valk is on the other side of the 18" away from my board edge infiltrators. That's 7" from my vehicles. Do I like meltagun shots at 7-12"? Nope, still dangerous. Definitely not the 'boom' that short range shots are, and since that negates your alpha strike--I will take it, and then of course proceed to move up and alpha strike YOU.

Subnote: If deployed 12" in, the Valks cannot get the Veterans into meltagun range without going fast and zooming over the infiltrators and get NO scout move forward (might get one sideways, and good for you--my army is over HERE). That negates all of the Valk fire, and puts a big 1 turn gap between your leading elements and your following elements which your opponent should take advantage of (and crush your face). I'll talk more about moving fast and the perils thereof down below.

Note that moving this fast (to get in range) means the Helicopters can only fire 1 weapon because they went over 6". So for the Vendetta they are not able to fire triple lascannons, which is important. The Valkyrie is less affected but does lose heavy bolter fire which is 12 S5 shots lost. Both are crucial for these vehicles because 1 twin-linked lascannon and 2 templates (which miss a lot) are not very good for anti-tank or anti-infantry duty, respectively.

So I eat one weapon from the valks and the vets are at long range with their meltas?

I ACCEPT.

I will take whatever I have left (that you didn't manage to take out), and crush your scout units with it.

Now let's talk about your Valks moving flat out, and how that works.

Well first off, Valks moving flat out have 2 problems.

1) They can't land in difficult terrain. You can be foolish if you want to, but when you roll a 1 and blow up your 140 point vehicle...you'll feel pretty stupid. If you have 6 and your opponent has 'filled' all the open areas with troops but left you landing grounds in the trees...don't thank him.

2) They can't shoot, and at point blank range...all it takes is a THREE, not a FOUR, to kill you with a melta weapon--you have a cover save because you are EASY to destroy. On a glance five you still die. Yeah, and your cover save is still only 4+. So half the meltashots that go through, have a very high probability of penetrating you AND killing you. Yeah, not a fun happy place to be.

Second, squads do not fucking want to deep strike out of a Helicopter moving flat out.

You scatter 2/3 of the time. When you land on me or your clusterfuck of Helicopters and guys getting out and scattering all over the place...you just lost that unit.

Roll a 1 to immobilize and those guys are in deep shit.

The defense works fine.

You can think it doesn't all you want, just like all the guys who thought they could deep strike their drop pods on a properly setup army did.

Poof to their army, and poof to the Valk rush army. They are very similar in play style.

Both are defended against in almost the same way--with infiltrators 'pushing' the other guy into very dangerous drops or forcing out-of-place drops.

Who cares if you kill one unit when I've negated your entire armies first turn alpha strike, and your army is a glass hammer?

Thanks for reading all this way...

Countering The Valkyrie

Howdy,

I'm sure many people are wondering just how they are going to deal with the Valkyrie dropping in Alpha strikes on their army when the Guard player goes first.

Well, I have the answer.

Bring a unit of infiltrators.

Everyone has one in their list (well, almost everyone).

Anyway, when facing a IG army going first...sacrifice your infiltrators. You get deployed last, but before Scouts move.

Drop them in a line in front of the enemy army, as close as you can get.

Once they are in the middle of the field, the Valkyries don't really have anywhere to go--making your army safe.

I do realize if the Guard player has Ratlings he can try and beat your infiltrate move with one of his own. There's nothing you can really do about that, but do remember that Ratlings aren't a great choice but even a cheap 50 point investment can give the Valkyries a good scout move.

IG Combo 3: Manticores and Psyker Battle Squads

When you are looking at IG, what is it they have lots of that everybody else doesn't?

Why yes, it's called Barrage weapons.

As the Manticore gets D3 blasts at S10 Ap4 (and cover can be negated) it can be used to not only knock out enemy tanks (it's ordnance, so it rolls 2 dice and takes the highest), but any enemy infantry nearby can also be zapped.

Against say Marines or Terminators though, so what? Lots of things wound Marines on 2+, but don't get past their armor save.

So hit them with weaken resolve, then plaster them with Manticore fire.

2 of each should do it, letting you pin specific units that are a threat to you--and also letting you run a different elite (cough Rambo) and another heavy (goodness...anything really).

Put your Psykers in Chimeras in the middle of the board (so they can zap most infantry) and put the 2 Manticores in the corners. Don't forget to give them heavy flamers! lol

Anyway, the great thing about this combo is--if you place your Psykers out of range of Librarians (and you can due to your range) they can't stop you from weakening their resolve.

If they aren't out of their transport, you can at least zap the crap out of them with the shooting attack (from the Psykers).

So you don't lose anything, it's just a neat little combo.

Why the Manticore instead of say a battery of basilisks?

Look at the Manticore review and you'll know. ;)

IG Combo 2: Sister Repentia Don't Suck

Time for another combo.

This time, Creed + Sister Repentia.

Oh yes, I do know they have sucked for a very long time.

Now, they might not be Ze Awesome but they are terrifying against the right army.

Let's see how it works.

You can Scout. So that means...you can outflank with them, and IG get to re-roll where they show up.

Alternatively, you can combine them with a Valkyrie rush army; and scout them forward.

On turn 1, hopefully you'll get a holy rage result. Combine with the run + scout move, and suddenly there are nutty Sister Repentia VERY close to the other guys army.

If you get another rage result, it's virtually guaranteed you'll get an assault. Might not be that scary, but since they should have a Priest attached...getting re-rolls to hit against vehicles with eviscerators is not fun, and they tend to do nasty things like smash ground units to bits.

Just one way to make Sister Repentia finally not suck.

IG Combo 1: Nob Biker Removal

Worried about Nob Bikers, and your new shiny tanks that aren't moving fast (if at all) and have a rear armor of 10, aren't ya?

While tank shocking them is always a possibility, and a decent one...getting tank shocks off isn't a guarantee.

So, isn't killing them with ridiculous ease a better option?

I think so too.

Now imagine, the Nob Biker squad has zoomed forward towards your battle line.

They have a 3+ cover, 4+ armor, 5+ invulnerable (usually), a Warboss, morale check re-roll, Feel No Pain, T5, and most have S9 power claws.

If they get next to your army, you will have a hard time putting large blasts on them because you can't cover any of your own stuff and Bikers in base with your own tanks are a big issue.

In general are very hard to get rid of even with many S8 blast/large blast weapons, because they have the 3+ cover and then your toast, yes?

So, how to deal with this?

Why, a thorough knowledge of the rules, solid tactics, and a nasty unit combination will see you through.

You are already bringing a Inquisitor Lord + Mystics in most IG builds for deep strike defense, yes?

Since the IG elites are kinda meh, you can burn some points on the only really good one--the Psyker Battle Squad. Fill it up.

Drop the Nobs Leadership by say -9, to a minimum of 2.

Not a bad thing, you cause casualties via shooting and odds are they are running. Problem is, even new Guard aren't really that mobile, and don't want to go into midfield against Orks--so forcing them to fall back doesn't really do you any good. There's probably ANOTHER biker squad around, and you need to be able to take care of both in a single turn. Right? Right.

So what if you focus two units on blowing one Nob Biker squad away, and then focus all of your fast attack (aka Hellhound and Leman Russ) plus ALL of your troops (whatever they are) plus your commands, into killing said 2nd squad.

Things would be looking up at that point, yes?

Well, let's complete the equation.

Burn another elite slot on an allied Callidus Assassin.

You have an Inquisitor already, so you can buy the Assassin.

Now go read the rules, specifically the FAQ that covers the Neural Shredder.

Oh right, I have a S8 AP1 flamer template that WILL insta-kill you if your LD is say 4 or less.

Didn't we just move the Nob squads LD down to 2, including the Warboss?

Now what does that do for us?

Well, if tank shock the Nobs into 'flame me please' formation, you can easily get most if not all of the Nob squad under one template.

Now the Ork player is sweating. You better have a printed copy of that FAQ, btw.

You now:

Negate FNP.
Instakill everyone (including the Warboss).
Negate their 3+ cover.
Negate their 4+ armor save.
Wound all of them on a 2+.

So basically, anyone who is wounded and fails their 5+ cybork save, is dead.

Then whatever is left (unless you rolled 2+ on everyone, and he failed all his 5+ invulnerables or funnier yet, didn't have any to start with) will most likely fail their LD2 test to stay, and flee.

Since they will almost certainly be below 50% strength at this point, they are gone.

This does work well on anyone of course, but focusing that much killy ability on say a tactical squad, is just silly. Well, unless you have nothing else to do then you may as well, right? lol

Enjoy!